Reform worship.

Miss you, bud. Thanks for sharing your thoughts h...

2011-12-08T11:57:29.306-06:00

Miss you, bud. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here.

"What are we orienting our lives around this ...

2011-12-08T11:42:45.083-06:00

"What are we orienting our lives around this season? We can't not be giving ourselves over to something. We are always spending our time and directing our desires toward something or someone."

This convicted me. I think I have this negative mindset towards Advent as liturgical and religious "ho-hum". But when I throw a Christmas song at the beginning of the worship set or string some Christmas lights on the stage, what am I pointing my people towards? Is that really an accurate and worthy portrayal of the season? Advent can be used just as negatively, but it can also be an awesome vehicle to point people towards the birth of their savior, and then point ultimately to the cross and the Gospel.

Thanks for this! I am starved for our coffee conversations.

Yes - thanks for the correction. Hope you and you...

2011-10-25T13:02:05.085-05:00

Yes - thanks for the correction. Hope you and your family are well!

John

John, I think you mean "True worship is NOT a...

2011-10-25T12:00:07.475-05:00

John, I think you mean "True worship is NOT abstract."

Thanks for the compliments on the blog. I wish I had more time to write.

Ryan

Yes. I would say that your two questions finish t...

2011-10-25T11:43:53.444-05:00

Yes. I would say that your two questions finish the cycle:

1. True worship is abstract.
2. It is expressed in the physical.
3. It is ultimately validated only if it causes others to worship God and only if we as believers act like we believe in Him.

There I go again...

By the way, this blog is sweet.

John L'Ecuyer

You and I both, John. I'm always over-thinkin...

2011-10-25T11:05:14.460-05:00

You and I both, John. I'm always over-thinking things. True worship is only an abstract ideal until it finds expression in real, down-to-earth relationships. Are we effectively leading out people to the worship of God? Are we effectively communicating his message and accurately enacting it as his people?

I've been chewing on the original post and you...

2011-10-25T10:48:25.083-05:00

I've been chewing on the original post and your comments for some time now, and finally came to the realization that I agree.

Where I see the tension is (at the risk of using a popular catch-phrase) cultural relevance. I see many churches become so liturgical that they die out for lack of relevance in their community, resting on what is comfortable and familiar, but not realizing that they are the proverbial frog in the slow boiling water. After a while, a "decision" has to be made by an individual or body of believers to move forward in making a difference somehow, somewhere. Inherent in the Gospel message is a call to action unique to all of us.

I guess crossing the line away from the basic message is based on the individual church's personality. Our actions need the centrality of Christ on the cross or they are for naught.

...or do I over-think?!?

John L'Ecuyer

LOL shameless plug comment made me giggle. There&#...

2011-10-19T11:56:36.915-05:00

LOL shameless plug comment made me giggle.
There's nothing wrong with giving credit where credit is due. It's like sharing with the world that you helped make the costumes for a broadway hit. That person was a part of something bigger than themselves and it is exciting to share. Ryan was used by God for His glory.
Thanks for your effort and input into this wonderful Vineyard CD.
Keep on Keeping on, bro.

I think the last line of the third verse is soon *...

2011-09-27T13:07:12.482-05:00

I think the last line of the third verse is soon *we* we will be coming home. I too thought I heard "you" when I first listened to it, which I thought was weird. Upon listening again I realized it was "we", which makes perfect sense, especially as a transition to the 4th verse. Wonderful song, and I enjoy it even more now. =)

Try this link: http://www.vineyardresources.com/e...

2011-09-20T15:59:22.497-05:00

Try this link:

http://www.vineyardresources.com/equip/content/playlist-stand-awe-cd

Why can't I find this album anywhere?

2011-09-20T15:55:49.865-05:00

Why can't I find this album anywhere?

Thanks for this breakdown, Ryan! We are working on...

2011-09-08T19:03:21.722-05:00

Thanks for this breakdown, Ryan! We are working on memorizing the Lords prayer and incorporating it into our homeschool day. I'll be using this as I explain the meaning of it to our kids.
As an aside, you might enjoy a blog series over at conversiondiary.com where guests are taking the Lords prayer word by word. Jen, the blogger, is a Catholic, so you probably won't agree with all of it, but It is very interesting as well. (but spread out over a few weeks, fyi).
Have a great night!
Carrie

Thanks for adding your thoughts, Ryan! I very muc...

2011-09-02T14:07:13.353-05:00

Thanks for adding your thoughts, Ryan!
I very much appreciate having a worship pastor who really ponders what he is doing, and why, as opposed to just singing some cool songs because he likes being on stage.
I'm going to print this off and take it camping with us this weekend, and keep thinking about it. :)
Feel free to email me personally if you would like to continue this conversation without me taking over your blog!
Carrie
(carrie@krusemark.com)

Now, concerning the balance of Word and Table, I&#...

2011-09-02T13:16:42.049-05:00

Now, concerning the balance of Word and Table, I'm no historian, but I believe the Reformers attempted to recover the centrality of the Word (teaching, exhorting) in a culture of nominalism. Church leaders were treacherously misleading their parishioners through fear and manipulation, and the result was a church full of nominals, alleviating their fears and maintaining their "I'm good" status through indulgences and attending Eucharist. As long as you do these things, you're good. Not all that different than the church today, eh?

But interestingly, Luther, Calvin, et al., had no intention of throwing out the historic elements of worship, and instead to infuse them with meaning, especially through recovering the Word, by which faith comes. Recover the Word, and it will have a trickle-down effect, infusing life and meaning to the rest of the service. And it did.

But again, further down the road, leaders decided that it would be easier to lead their people in worship (or to a decision!) by means other than the historic components of worship. I imagine it was because it was too hard to lead their people to a quantifiable decision using the historic structure of worship. So they tapped into the narratives of other kingdoms--of the marketplace, of consumer capitalism, of the entertainment industry, of nationalism--and replaced the historic elements with these cultural elements in order to better lead their people in what they believe is worship, but what is really just a measurable decision. A new kind of manipulation, indeed.

Many churches who have done this have redefined worship. Now worship means thirty minutes of singing romantic songs to God, or moral upstanding, or prosperity, or patriotic devotion. This has become the new normal to a generation.

This generation of the Contemporary Church (non-denominational Protestant church, free church, whatever you want to call it) is largely unfamiliar with the historic structure and elements of worship. And the previous generation--those who left their liturgical traditions for something "better"--many of them miss their traditional roots, and many want to have nothing to do with it. They have bought into the new kind of "worship" that the Contemporary Church offers.

And what Chaplain Mike is saying is they're worse off for it. It's comfortable and makes sense to them because it fits so well with all the other this-worldly activity they participate in. That makes me sad, because as Christians we are part of a radically different story, and yet the church is telling and enacting the inferior stories of this culture.

But it also motivates me as a worship pastor to call people in (not to call them out, but in) to a much greater story--the story that is told every week in the historic liturgy; the story that calls us into the communion of saints (and out of individualism); the story in which God acts first, calling us, speaking to us, re-membering us, and sending us, and to which we respond by gathering, hearing the Word, remembering him at the Table, departing to love and serve the world.

Peace of Christ.

Carrie, First of all, I'd be interested to he...

2011-09-02T13:16:27.076-05:00

Carrie,

First of all, I'd be interested to hear why Confirmation was the end of your Catholic worship, when it's supposed to be a new beginning! :)

Seriously, though, we have all seen this nominalism in many Catholics (and Protestants!), where people are Christian only in name, but not in actual identity and lifestyle. You get baptized, or you get confirmed, or you go to church week after week, and you check it off your list and think, "I'm good."

Church leaders across the board are becoming increasingly aware of this, and many of them have been making more of an effort to lead their parishioners/congregants into a true appropriation of the actions of worship.

On the other hand, many Protestant leaders have reacted, based on their experiences, by rendering the historic elements of worship unnecessary or irrelevant, and so they throw them out of their worship gatherings and replace them with "relevant" worship components.

What Chaplain Mike is saying (and I agree) is that it is foolish for us to throw out the historic (and biblical!) order of worship, and instead we ought to infuse meaning back into these essential components of worship. That's what leading worship is all about.

(comment continued)

Great post - thanks. If it isn't doing that f...

2011-09-02T12:43:52.798-05:00

Great post - thanks. If it isn't doing that forming and shaping, it may not really be worship and the "church" may need to be renamed to just a social center.

Hey Ryan! It's so amazing to read this on your...

2011-09-01T21:25:00.799-05:00

Hey Ryan!
It's so amazing to read this on your blog today, because it was exactly, exactly what I was thinking about as I left church this past weekend. You see, in the last two weeks, I've been to a Catholic mass twice. It was the first time I've been to a mass since I was confirmed over 20 years ago. I have been seriously pondering the differences in worship styles at the two very different churches. And my conclusion was the same as in the article you quoted. In the Catholic church, very liturgical, the teaching is a very little part, and communion is the focus - focusing on what Jesus has done, in a way that differs relatively little from place to place. On the other hand, our non- denominational Protestant church focuses much more on teaching from the word, fleshing out a biblical story with modern day examples. Very helpful, but much more focused on what we need to do that what Jesus has done. Also, much more dependent on who the teacher is. I see both sides and feel torn as to which is better. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Sorry for writing a book on your blog!
Carrie

you guys are wack! Read your BIBLE!!! (Acts 17, Jo...

2011-08-24T14:08:42.250-05:00

you guys are wack! Read your BIBLE!!! (Acts 17, John 1)

You got no comments on this post, but don't wo...

2011-08-18T08:24:08.407-05:00

You got no comments on this post, but don't worry. It was helpful. Our crew reviewed this post this past Sunday and specifically the things the worhsiip service trains people to do.

The mega church in our city doesn't bother wit...

2011-06-17T15:50:33.257-05:00

The mega church in our city doesn't bother with a chickified male leading worship, they just have a real chick lead it.

Thank you...such grace! This blesses me...I'v...

2011-06-15T23:22:28.026-05:00

Thank you...such grace! This blesses me...I've always loved the song & never knew the story behind it...and then the story behind the story...

anyone can write an emo song of modern "worship," but only a TRUE worshiper, touched by God's amazing grace, can sacrifice his reputation for the sake of God's reputation & tell the Truth, even if it means others may judge him.

Thank you Mike! And thanks, Ryan for posting this wonderful blog that I just discovered!

I found this blog while searching for others' ...

2011-06-06T07:41:33.424-05:00

I found this blog while searching for others' opinions on this song after receiving similarly negative feedback on it in church. I later found the author's follow-up post regarding his updated views on the song, and since there is no link here to that, there should be...
http://www.reformworship.com/2009/06/god-does-respond-to-us.html

The video - which is clearly a satire on the dange...

2011-06-04T05:47:10.522-05:00

The video - which is clearly a satire on the dangers of formulaic worship whatever the style - has been reposted here:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzqaITA3IO0

I just got the flier in the mail today. Aside fro...

2011-05-02T08:15:14.324-05:00

I just got the flier in the mail today. Aside from the location of the site, I'm troubled by how the event is marketed. Is this about all the famous, good looking, spit and polish worship leaders? Are we supposed to be motivated to come because we might catch a glimpse of those whom the corporate worship world has elevated to royal status? The flier says I should register now! Perhaps I'd better not think about it and just do as I'm told. Perhaps it's worth saving $150 not to take the time to think critically about the Experience which so many beautiful people are taking part in.

Gary, that's really the purpose of the blog: t...

2011-04-27T13:56:28.700-05:00

Gary, that's really the purpose of the blog: to identify "wrong" practices and to call the (contemporary) church to reform. Hopefully, we've been doing this for the past five years. BTW, this post was written nearly five years ago. I certainly could have used different words, made the call more inviting, etc. A lot can change in five years. You know.